TIL that honda has its own web domain
Honda is cool they build robotics and the best motorbikes in the world per cost
other motorbike, mix up at the factory, enjoy your rocket
My buddy’s 2 million mile ‘95 civic says this is a sure bet
Honda giving a whole new meaning to crotch rocket.
Oh wait, it’s an actual rocket!Anything that erodes SpaceX’s monopoly is good for me
Unfortunately, the next competitor will be Amazon…
And then we’ll see what happens next, getting a whole constellation up is no small feat, I can’t see a third company getting a system working before 2050.
The satellite constellation is the natural consequence of cheaper rockets. It’s a true paradigm shift, but the pioneer in this case has only the moat of being able to spend less money per launch. If someone else can deliver payloads to low earth orbit for less than $2,000/kg, then they’ll easily be able to launch a Starlink competitor.
Again, the only possible player that could do that any time soon is blue origin/Amazon.
Stoke Space is working on a fully reusable rocket though, I’m really impressed with their rocket concept, some very smart design choices were made. They do have working hardware and have demonstrated their core engine. But I have no idea how close they are to first launch tests, I expect it will be a while
Your original comment said 2050, which is a long way off. SpaceX’s first launch attempt was in 2006, their first successful launch was in 2008, their first successful recovery of a rocket in reusable condition was in 2015, and first reused a rocket in 2017. If they can make progress on that kind of timeline, why wouldn’t someone else be able to?
If they can make progress on that kind of timeline, why wouldn’t someone else be able to?
That’s a fair point. Keep in mind though, it takes a while to get a whole constellation up in orbit and get all the kinks worked out, Starlink was first usable in 2020. So in total it took them in the area of 14 years from start to finish. It’s also worth noting, that nobody in the space industry has really ever been able to move as fast as spaceX, they’re something of an anomaly, not the norm.
So could a new company do it in 14 years? Yeah, that’s definitely possible. It could happen by 2039, but I wouldn’t put money on it. 25 years seems more likely.
We won’t live that long.
Not with that attitude!
Arianespace has fallen behind, but they’re not out of the picture. They’re still by far the largest competitor to SpaceX, and they’re aiming for their 7th generation Ariane to be a reusable design.
Arianespace is an Airbus and Safran subsidiary, so it’s not like they don’t have the engineering oomph behind them.
Also with starlink even one company’s constellation is causing issues with astronomers and launches.
How bad will it be if there are 5-6 different companies with their own network floating around up there. And then other countries with their own network.
Yeah, it’s a bad situation. I’m against monopolies, but I also see how filling the sky with redundant satellites is a terrible plan, so I don’t like the idea of lots of competition either.
I think low orbit satellite communications is a pretty awesome concept. It has the potential to become like a second Internet backbone, but a backbone that can bring data directly to users without the additional router hops that local ISPs introduce. On paper, it’s amazingly efficient and can distribute service to all of the world… But in practice the business and management side is deeply problematic. One company should absolutely not be in charge of global Internet service. And one country would not be any better.
The only solution I can see is to make it safe and feasible to have way more satellites operating in low earth orbit. I’m really not sure what that solution might look like…
Here’s an off-the-cuff idea though: One solution could be an extremely robust low earth orbit maintenance and “pruning” system. All satellites would need to be monitored by third parties. And those third parties would need the authority and ability to quickly deorbit (prune) any satellite that deviates from its exact expected orbit. If satellites can ensure no deviation from their path and can safely maneuver to avoid collisions, it could be possible for many more satellites to safely share an orbital altitude.
Deorbiting is all well and good, but more and more we’re finding that these satellites contain chemicals that are very disruptive to the ozone layer. It’s going to be CFCs all over again, but with even more corporate capture of government.
That’s a fair point. The alternative is taking things up to a “graveyard orbit” somewhere between LEO and GSO, to a particularly unpopular altitude, where nobody’s fighting for real estate. Satellites can sit there indefinitely, you could even clump them up in a big ball, the tiny pull of gravity they have is actually enough to keep them bunched together.
The only problem with that plan is that it takes a lot of energy to raise an orbit that much, I’m not sure how to make that feasible.
The only problem with that plan is that it takes a lot of energy to raise an orbit that much, I’m not sure how to make that feasible.
Lowering the orbit takes energy, too, unless you’re relying solely on atmospheric drag.
Lowering the orbit takes energy, too, unless you’re relying solely on atmospheric drag.
Sure, but you can safely deorbit something from Leo with like 100 m/s of Delta v, you just need to dip into the atmosphere and then drag does the rest. Getting something to a sufficiently high graveyard orbit is more like 2000 Dv split between two burns. You’d need to stay with the trash for half an orbit and then do the second half of your burn, and then presumably you’d need to travel back to your original point, costing another 2000 Dv.
All together, going up could take 40x more propellant than going down.
I know Blue Horizon or whatever it’s called has had minor success with rockets. What’s stopping Honda from out-competing them? Could it be a funding problem? (I know Blue Horizon has a lot of Amazon funding)
Well yeah, blue origin has already successfully orbited their rocket. Their rocket which has a 45 ton to low earth orbit payload capacity, about the same as the Saturn V (so actually impressive as fuck).
So the head start is what keeps Honda from out competing them. They’re at least 10 years ahead of Honda (but likely more). And BO is solely focused on space, Honda on the other hand isn’t going to prioritize that arm of development over others. So I can’t really see Honda winning that sprint, if they’re not totally committed to the race.
The Top Gear Reliant Robin launch reached 3000ft / 900m, although they were unable to stick the landing.
This wasn’t much more than a toy rocket:
6.3 m in length, 85 cm in diameter,
The test was completed successfully, the first time Honda landed a rocket after reaching an altitude of nearly 300 meters.But still they were successful on their first try, so we will have to see where they take it from here. 🚀
It’s proof of tech. It’d be stupid and wasteful to do all the tests on a full size rocket.
You mean like Starship?
I plead the 5th…
There’s a YouTube channel called BPS Space where this guy spent 7 years learning how to land a model rocket space x style. He talked about how much you can learn about real rocket science even from a small model.
This is the same guy.
Whatever they tested it’s probably proof of that, but such a small rocket and only 300 meters means that a lot of things were not really proven, because scale is a HUGE issue.
Just ask Elon Musk / SpaceX, the Falcon rocket is fine, but Starship is horrible. And the difference is scale.That is not why starship fails. Starship fails because like everything that Elon does lately it emphasizes style over practicality. Starship is a very badly designed rocket that looks cool to Elon. Not unlike the Cyber truck which has been an abject failure in every way possible.
My personal opinion is that it fails because SpaceX, like a lot of space startups, embrace a silicon valley coding mindset of ‘move fast and break things’, which results on them spending much more of their time and effort on testing than on design. Make a change, test, make a subsequent change, test. It gets them to a working prototype more quickly than legacy space/ defense companies. However, there’s no emphasis on modeling or design, which is problematic for solving complex problems that haven’t been solved for 50 years already.
You are missing the point that size makes a difference. Obviously SpaceX has the technology to do what Honda did, but SpaceX can do ti with a real rocket.
But they can’t do it with the bigger Starship rocket. Scale matters.And when SpaceX does it with real full size rockets and they explode scattering debris and chemicals everywhere, the nearby towns pay the price.
I don’t see any towns being decimated by Honda’s approach.
I am ABSOLUTELY not praising SpaceX, I’m just using them as an example of how scale makes all the difference at least for some of the components. And being able to launch a small rocket is evidence they can launch a big one too.
Size is only a proof of logistics. Not tech. Physics don’t change fundamentally between 6 meters and 120 meters. You learn a lot from scale modeling without the added costs. Starship’s real challenge is actually the logistics necessary to fulfill the desired specifications and experimenting with engineering to reach the scale. The most innovative aspect of Starship would be orbital refueling, and they aren’t there since the thing hasn’t reached orbit yet. SpaceX problem right now is insisting on high turnover engineering, which doesn’t work at scale without heavy costs, because it is a logistic problem, not a engineering problem.
Physics don’t change fundamentally between 6 meters and 120 meters
Yes it does. Mass to strength ratio of structural components changes with scale. So does the thrust to mass ratio of a rocket and its fuel. So does heat dissipation (affected by ratio of surface area to mass).
And I don’t know shit about fluid dynamics, but I’m skeptical that things scale cleanly, either.
Scaling upward will encounter challenges not apparent at small sizes. That goes for everything from engineering bridges to buildings to cars to boats to aircraft to spacecraft.
If it had vtech and a fart cannon it would have hit 600m.
Honda built a rocket
Me: of course they did.
They launched the rocket
Me: naturally.
They landed the rocket.
Me: on the first try?
Genuinely curious: how many explosions before the successful test?
Apparently they got it right on the first try.
Now that’s the real win.
It seems crazy that a company that’s only really known for cars, motorbikes, tuning forks, heat pumps, brake pads, pens, tractors, fertilizer, display panels, outboard motors, pneumatic systems, oil tankers, furniture, locomotives, bricks, solar panels, ATVs, generators, hot air balloons, dinghies, hydrogen fuel cells, submarines, crop dusters, jet engines, cultivators, hedge trimmers, lawnmowers, precision optics and robots would suddenly pivot to rockets.
Also a very capable downhill bike that was using a gearbox well before it got popular
It’s actually interesting how similar rockets and jet engines are. You could think of a rocket as a jet (or sometimes two jet engines) where the afterburner is always on and the air intake is replaced by an O2 tank…
a rocket is a wingless airplane IMO
Edit: with oxygen tanks, as you said.
Don’t forget, one the sleekest airplanes to ever exist.
N420HA. Not sure if that’s the model or the plane’s license plate but either way hell yeah
N420HA = and 420 hah
I bet it’s high af rn
Yeah, tail numbers are a lot like license plates.
Oh damn.
To be fair to Honda, they are doing what is expected of any companies in a capitalist system, actually innovate and diversify in order to remain competitive. Most other companies would rather stick to their traditional products and services, even if those products and services are written on the wall that they are becoming obsolete.
It’s almost like they’re an engineering company.
Crazy, right?
The impressive part is that they are also known for being reliable, there are the occasional issues, but overall very trustworthy products.
Like how the 2018-2021 Honda Civics shipped with non functioning AC because they used the wrong type of refrigerant? They’ve also trained dealerships to deny the warranty!
It’s been in the 90s all week - I risk heat stroke in my fucking car going to work!
Isn’t that Yamaha? Or is Honda the same?
Yamaha is definitely in tune with the music. I never remember which is which, but their logo is tuning forks and depending on the product the tuning forks can extend past the circle. I think their motorcycles have it extending past.
I’m a huge fan of Yamaha guitars. Great workmanship at a very affordable price, and if you buy used you can get them super cheap. My best guitar, an FG730S, which plays and sounds as good as any expensive gourmet brands, was only $102 at auction. I even bought another one as a backup. Used Yamaha guitars are the best deal on the market.
Mitsubishi too
None of these answers are wrong.
Pretty sure we had CRTs in highschool, back when I was a teen many years ago that were Kia brand… IIRC.
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It says Honda right on the side of the engine.
No, that’s Nintendo
No, they’re the playing card company.
Incredible. What a great comment.
I hope they crush SpaceX one day.
By landing on them.
This is the first I have heard they were doing this. Makes spacex accomplishments less impressive. Fuck elon
You have it the wrong way round. SpaceX’s accomplishments are impressive despite Elon.
How does it make spaceX’s accomplishments less impressive? SpaceX pioneered it. Space X did it first, with a significantly bigger rocket and at a significantly higher altitude. Honda no doubt achieved this by looking at what spacex did and how they did it and copying it.
This actually makes spaceX’s accomplishments look even more impressive.
I imagine they poached a lot of Spacex engineers by simply telling them “we won’t make you work ungodly hours, nor will we subject you to a narcissistic manchild with no engineering education dropping in on your meetings and trying to tell you how to do your job”
I bet they poached 0-3 engineers.
You left out the “but you have to learn Japanese and move to Japan” part of the job pitch. That makes it a harder sell for most people.
You do realize it’s Japan right? China, Japan, Korea all have work life balance issues.i wouldn’t want to work 996 or 007 lol
We would like to contact you for job offer in the same role as your current.
We cant pay you as much per hour but we can give you more hours to match it.
“Promise me i wont ever have to deal with Musk and i am in”
As much as it’s true, not all company are doing this. There are plenty of good East Asian company with good work life balance, especially newer company that already recognize the issue.
They had the same at SpaceX
Not saying they don’t. Just saying the “ungodly hours” statement may not apply
Probably still a less insane megalomaniac for a boss at least though.
It’s called “being hardcore”
In Japan?
“… it’ll be the same, but it’s a huge honor to work on this project in our company.”
And we reward you for this huge honour with the worst working conditions you can imagine. You’ll live at your desk.
Tbf doesn’t he have a computer science degree? Which is a type of engineering degree?
Computer science is more of a math degree than anything else
Um, no it doesn’t… At all…
This is a first step landing test, not even suborbital, it flew to a height of 300 meters. This is the point that SpaceX was at in 2011 with their grasshopper rocket.
SpaceX is regularly landing orbital hardware and working on a fully reusable rocket with a greater lifting capacity than anything else ever. It’s not really the same…
But fuck Elon, no argument there.
Well, Honda is actually a competent company.
Hell yes. Any competition to musk is very much needed.
Go Honda.
well Honda did this a decade later so there still is some achievement spacex has done 🤷
Eh, it’s just a start of development. It only goes 300 meters. Blue Origin goes higher, but even they aren’t in orbit.
Japan also has some odd limitations on their rockets as part of their self defense only constitution. They don’t build a rocket that could potentially be used to strike mainland Asia.
I know you’re likely referring to New Shepard but Blue Origin did make it to orbit with New Glenn
And their 1st stage is designed to be reusable, so we might have another reusable provide in the near future.
It might take a handful of launches to get there, but they are on that path.
Something something the first 300 meters are the hardest…
The issue is not going up, it’s going over. If we only cared about the private sector getting people into space, that happened on a fully reusable vehicle twenty years ago.
The problem is getting things to stay in space. Not trying to Elon-stan here, but getting a rocket into orbit is many fold more difficult than just getting into space.
Yeah, if by “going over”, you mean accelerating in the horizontal direction, then you’re right.
Just to illustrate this: Consider we want to put 1 kg of mass into orbit.
First, we have to raise it by 100 km. That requires 1e6 J = 1 MJ of energy (formula is m*g*h).
Then, we have to accelerate it sideways, to a speed of 8 km/s. The energy to do that is 32 MJ (formula is ½*m*v²).
So, most of the energy (97%) is actually in the sideways movement.
The Estes Corporation makes rockets that will do 600 meters.
It’s great that Honda is doing this. We really need other companies in this area, because SpaceX is dominating it. Even if Elon weren’t a walking disaster, we don’t want one company so badly outclassing everyone else.
Also, if you look at the pictures, it’s not a very big rocket.
Like kei cars … Kei rockets!!!
Hey, hey, it’s average.
It’s not a big American rocket.
Up and down isn’t a hard problem in the grand scheme of things. It’s expensive and doesn’t offer much benefit which is why people generally haven’t bothered.
Going up and over at orbital velocities and coming back is the hard part, and none of these new spaces companies have done that successfully yet, and SpaceX has now done it with 2 vehicles and reused them both.
New Glenn from Blue Orgin might be the first after SpaceX but it blew up coming back on their first attempt, but it’s been designed to be orbital and reusable
To be fair, they must’ve learned from the recent spacex accomplishments.
probably
no one in the private sector was gonna take that kind of risk for a while and then SpaceX took the gamble, won and now tons of players see vertical landing of rockets works so their all looking into it.
I wanna buy one and see what it can do with an old 4 cylinder VTEC out of a Civic Si.
Of all the manufacturing companies, I would expect nothing less from Honda.
